Public opinion is overwhelmingly skeptical regarding the feasibility of a two-state solution, with many expressing disillusionment stemming from the prolonged conflict, the influence of Hamas, and historical failures of previous agreements. The urgent need for humanitarian aid for Palestinians and frustrations over the lack of actionable peace efforts are highlighted.

Israel

Palestine

Hamas

United Nations

There’s no unified leftist perspective.  Some leftist are parroting “from the river to the sea” not knowing that basically means wiping out significant chunks of Israel at a minimum. Some are staunchly supporting their Jewish friends or neighbors and think the Israeli army is overall justified even if maybe some bad things have happened.

tmahfan117

There are a lot of alternatives, but none of them are honestly very realistic.

There's the three-state solution, where Gaza and the West Bank and Israel are all acknowledged as separate countries.

And then there's the "Force Egypt to annex Gaza and force Jordan to annex the West Bank" solution, which sounds pretty good until you learn anything about those countries at all.

And then there's the one-state solution, where Gaza and the West Bank remain part of Israel, and Israel is heavily pressured to drop its state religion and give everyone within its borders full citizenship and voting rights.

Present_Self9644

A one-state solution that a leftist might advocate for is one in which Arabs/Palestinians and Israelis were in equal legal standing and more or less integrated into a single society. Leftists would probably also want that society to operate under some flavor of socialism.

Of course many leftists don't want states at all, but baby steps, yeah?

untempered_fate

Many support a single state that has 1 vote per person, with Israelis and Palestinians both having citizenship

TheApiary

What people mean is the leftist position seems to be kicking the Jews out of Israel. 

The radical left has aligned itself with Hamas… for some reason.

thebipeds

People should read "Prisoners of Geography" to understand the history of that whole part of the world. It only has a few chapters but it explains it very clearly and would help a lot of people understand why certain options are being discussed. I'm not going to put my view forward, because I think there is no "good" answers to this. There are bad ones, but the rest are at best, going to be difficult to keep peace with for decades to come.

CoffeeIgnoramus

Ethnostates don't work.  No nation should discriminate against people because of their race.

Royal_Annek

One option is recognizing that the Palestinian Territories are part of Israel, since Israel controls them, and the West Bank is full of Israeli settlers. 

This approach condemns Israel as an Apartheid State, since the Palestinians can’t vote. The solution would be for everyone who lives under Israeli Government control to have the same rights. This is known as a One State Solution. It wouldn’t work, because extremists on both sides would just kill each other

CombatWombat1973

"Leftist" gives away that someone is right-wing/maga.

1 state.  Since both groups want to completely wipe out the other.  If either succeeds well the problem is solved.  Then it is time to find another group to genocide.

GESNodoon

&gt;The plan would culminate with an independent, demilitarized Palestine living side by side peacefully with Israel, and their eventual integration into the wider Mideast region.

Great plan. Good luck.

ViciousNakedMoleRat

The UN could have backed the numerous times Israel offered a second state and palestine rejected it

NegevThunderstorm

Unless they plan on enforcing this “solution” with military means, it’s about as useless as Greta Thunberg’s little sailboat.

LogicallyMad

Did they also call Hamas? Which is the main issue? Why are we pretending like Israel is the issue when it offered the two states solution a million times already and Palestinians keep rejecting it?

Square_Hat_3994

Miserable_Pie_8337

Why aren’t there more calls from western media and govts for hamas to lay down arms and surrender. Why would the Israelis accept any counter offer from an enemy thats been heavily weakened. Can’t some blame be pinned on hamas for the continued suffering of the people in Gaza? Genuine question.

NoseBreather31

I still think it should be a three state solution where Gaza &amp; West Bank are independent from each other.   But I guess that isn’t acceptable for Palestinians who consider themselves as one people.   Plus Gaza might continue to have difficulty running an economy all on its own.  But, other small remote countries are able to thrive with even less natural resources.  It just makes more sense to me, because Gaza &amp; West Bank people/governments often DO have separate and potentially conflicting goals and opinions.

eagleshark

why don't they call on Hamas to surrender and release the remaining hostages first?

SaintofKillers420

Will said Palestinian state commit to living peacefully near the state of Israel, and forego their goals of destroying Israel and "returning" to it? If so, I'm all for it, but I'm guessing you'll find it hard to get Palestinians to agree to these simple conditions.

Niceguy955

The Palestinians authorities - along with influencers/sponsors like Iran - have always, always, always believed in “no recognition, no negotiation, and no peace”. 

So until something radically changes, they will not recognize Israel’s existence, will not negotiate a two state solution (as it would necessitate recognition of Israel), and are not interested in peace. 

The UN is such a joke.

jahauser

As if.


Palestine is basically a memory at this point.

DeepBreathOfDirt

Much, much less than before.
The point of the retreat in 2005, was to at least start the process, and creating a palestinian autonomy, that hopefully will not be a danger to israel.


Today, it became clear that israeli inaction, and cooperation with hamas to achieve that goal, was a mistake.


So yea- even hardcore two state supporters, at least reconsider their position.


Now- I still support two states, but my position has changed massively.


First of all- they first have to be defeated. Like germany and japan after ww2.
Don't leave any room for a "knife at rhe back of the nation" rumors- clear loss.


Then, the reconstruction must occur under israeli or american occupation  leading to the creation of a government that is at least receptive to israel,


Amd- and this is the most important thing- create jobs.
Open factories, workshops, etc. Make sure that when the occupation ends- gaza is self reliant.

Effective_Jury4363

\&gt; initial zionists said they wanted a country with the least amount of Palestinians possible

This is slander based on anti-zionists winning an edit war on wikipedia, in turn based on misquoting a book by an anti-zionist historian. No, they did not. The zionist congresses over the years repeatedly called for co-existence with Palestinian Arabs.

  
Lots of Israelis nowdays stopped believing co-existence with Palestinians is possible. Does not mean they would not want co-existence if Palestinians changed.

CaregiverTime5713

SKFinston

Didn’t we already have a 2 state solution? Israel pulled out of Gaza fully in 2005 acceding to them. What would be the difference in the future?

HugoSuperDog

As long as Palestinians keep wanting for a certain people group to be in power, whose sole purpose is to destroy Israel (and its citizens), there won't be a 2 state option.  Ever.

Commercial-Class4078

I believe Israelis don’t want a 2SS, and I also believe that neither do the Palestinians.

A 2SS would involve some painful concessions from each side (the Palestinians would probably need to disarm in some way, and the Israelis would need to give up some land and probably all of their settlements in the WB). 

The issue is that the current political climate both in Israel and outside of it heavily eggs on the war. The Palestinians are constantly funded and pushed by Iran and its proxies to never put down the fight, and within Israel (in the past 5 or so years) grows a large movement of pro-ethnic cleansing / genocide that believe that is the only way out.

Hopefully we will see better leaders on both sides, but my spirit has been crushed by statements from within Israel and from outside of it.

normieleon

I think majority don't see it as actually possible at this point.

If a Palestinian leader who wasn't blatantly antisemitic and actually truly was seeking peace happened to emerge this could change. Expecting Israelis to be open to a two state solution post October 7th when this leader doesn't even exist is kind of crazy to me though.

I'm not actually Israeli so I could be wrong, that's just what I see a lot of Israelis claim on here and elsewhere.

GroundbreakingDate94

Really don't see 2 state solution happening, gaza need to work on themselves. Maybe vote for a government not intrested in terrorism or killing Jews, Israel already offered gaza for peace and its still not enough

NodeTMan53

The people Israelis vote for don't support it, not even if Palestinians lay down arms and become meek as lambs. Which is why I've come to believe that the only hope for peace is Palestinians laying down arms and engaging in peaceful resistance demanding citizenship in Israel.

Chazhoosier

You don't know who is bombing Palestinian women from the sky? Really? 

Secondly, would you rather have women be ethnically cleansed from their homeland than ruled by a local movement you dislike?

Minskdhaka

In my experience, most Israelis would accept a two state solution, but only if it ensured that the other state did not try and conquer them.

Since 10/7, most Israeli now believe that the Palestinian state would absolutely be a terror base that tries to conquer them. After all, Gaza was basically trial for a two state solution, and look what happened there. Israel pulled out so they had autonomy, and they immediately used that autonomy to attack Israel for the next two decades before then conducting the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust.

I think a two-state solution will only happen now if Palestinians can convince Israelis that they really, truly, are going to be super peaceful. You'd need some sort of Palestinian peace movement that leads to zero Palestinian terrorist attacks for decades (or at least Palestinians themselves catching and punishing any terrorists.) This, by the way, is an example of one of the many ways the Western Pro-Palestinian movement is making it impossible for Palestinians to ever gain autonomy, since they convince Palestinians that they should continue violently "resisting" rather than making peace.

Palestinians had decades to negotiate for a state. They chose violent conquest attempts instead. They went too far this time, the clock has run out, and Palestinians have to actually take responsibility for their own violence if they want to see a change.

Frankly, the most realistic way I can see progress happening is for individual Palestinian town/cities to make peace arrangements with the Israeli government, rather that dreaming that "Palestine" will ever be a cohesive nation that can police itself — it never has been, and all evidence suggests it never will be.

Routine-Equipment572

Israeli here! A lot of us, id even argue that most of us, are pro a two state solution, most people just believe the Palestinian side doesn't want it. But the entire Israeli left believes and is protesting towards a peaceful two states solution! :)

Ga_Ga_Ga9631

There are citizens who are generally intrested in two state solution including arap citizens, but that trust went out the window after October 7th

they used to, but that political outlook really took a huge hit in the 00s.  
the problem with "support" is that it kind of jumbles what people ideally want and what people are convinced needs to be done. Israelis were significantly, materially more pro 2 states before the 2nd intifada

SymphoDeProggy

BizzareRep

It doesn't matter so much if the people of israel support it. What matters most is if Palestinians support it, which is across the board almost exclusively no, they want it all "from the river to the...". As long as Palestinians don't support it, there cant be peace.

[deleted]

My problem with the two state solution is that it was already tried. That's how the Hamas came to rule Gaza. In short, Arik Sharon, the then prime minister of Israel, passed the Hitnatkut(severance) law in 2005-2006. It was essentially a one sided retreat, no strings attached. Elections were held, and Hamas was elected, immediately abolished the democratic system, and the rest is history. Einstein is quoted to say that doing the same thing twice and expecting different results is the definition of madness.

Novel_Buddy_8703

For the question about the media taking an anti-Israeli stance: follow the money. Israel is one small country, very poor in natural resources. There are 20 odd arab countries that control most of the oil in the world, and god aren't those petrodollars tempting?

Israeli here. I don’t give a shit what they do, I’m super happy for them to have a state, but not unless it means they stop trying to murder me and my family. 

Most Israelis both left and right have learned long ago that we do not have a good faith partner in the “Palestinians”. Arafat agreed to the Oslo accords then went home and launched the second intifada. We are sick of being blown up in shopping centers and running to bomb shelters. Sick of stabbing and sick of being attacked abroad or slaughtered at the Olympics. We are tired of the Palestinians and their violence. We tried for decades to make peace, and it didn’t materialize. They don’t want two states. They want it all. They have since the 1930s. We don’t want to roll over and die. So the saying goes, peace will come when they love their children more than they hate ours. Till then, we don’t care much what they do. But very few moderate and centrist people object to them having a state if it means peace.

1entreprenewer

Half of Israelis wanted to expel all the arabs, long before Oct 7 .https://www.reuters.com/article/world/about-half-of-israeli-jews-want-to-expel-arabs-survey-finds-idUSKCN0WA1HI/

It is a collapsing society drunk on their desires of an ethnostate. So to say "still want" is false. They never wanted a Palestinian state. They want all the land.

It_is_not_that_hard

I think on the micro level there is small support and appetite  for it right now, but given the right context and reasoning, while assuring security concerns, there will be a majority suppprt for it, but that would require significant changes in Palestinian society and regimes, for example, no way in hell will Israel accept Hamas or the likes of them being any part of such a state,

This state would need to be demilitarized, probably relying strictly on a police force and maybe outside protection if they truly need one (possibly UN) but this new state would not be allowed to own or operate an army of any serious weaponry, at least not initially

OmryR

alot of israelis since 7.10 moved to the right, but ironically it could results in more moderate government as before 7.10 there was even split and netanyahu  had to rely on the most extreme right wing factions to form a coalition. with more right wing parties( which are more right-center then just right) he can  form a coalition without the extreme right wing factions or even a right-center coalition without netanyahu.

netanyahu  dont really have any ideology, he just want to stay in power

Alone_Test_2711

Many people (albeit a minority) believe that in principle it was the just solution. But even among them, few believe it's realistic in the foreseeable future.

No-Excitement3140

Roughly 20% of the jewish population of Israel still supports the idea of a 2 state solution. Most others are understandably against making it easier for our enemies to attack us.

johnnyfat

Two State Solution for Israelis is like supporting antisemitism and our own self-destruction. Makes no sense.

Zoltan-Kazulu

2 state solution was never ever possible with all the past and present Palestinian leadership, it shouldn't surprise anyone since "Palestine" nationality by itself consists of removing israel from the middle east, without israel existing there wouldn't be any palestine, just more islamic territory.

Other-Carrot-958

Have you tried to stop thinking with slogans and start thinking with brains? As a rule, reality is more complicated than any sweet political ideology you are into. Sorry

keepxxs

Some still do, but, as evidenced by the Gaza Strip, October 7th, and even earlier with the second intifada in 2000. Making peace with the Arabs and trying to create a solution to this conflict consistently backfires. The Arabs don’t see these deals, ceasefires and withdrawals as opportunities for peace, they see at it as weakness to be exploited. It’s a civilisational issue.

26JDandCoke

Down from ~40-50% support to about 20% now

Revolutionary-Copy97

“The 2SS” isn't a thing. It never was.

Device_whisperer

the3rdmichael

I think 2SS is on life support right now. If it's ever going to happen, it's going to need to be in a way that will not jeopardize Israel's security or sovereignty. Right now there is nobody in Palestinian leadership that recognizes Israel's sovereignty. At best you have PA with its pay-for-slay Martyrs Fund. That's literally the best case scenario, and they're not even popular compared to the even more extreme HAMAS.


I think most mainstream Israelis would love to get out of Gaza and the WB, but these conditions make it impossible. Furthermore, these justified fears are giving rise to the most aggressive offshoots of Zionism, ie Kahanism, so you kind of have extremists feeding each other at the expense of all the normies who want what most people want: food, water, safety, shelter.

Tricky-Anything8009

There is not really "***the*** Two State Solution" (as in Israel is one state/the Palestinian territories in their entirety are one state). That being said, there is still significant support for "**a** Two State Solution" (in recent years, the wording tends to be more like "Two **Entity** Solution", but that is semantics) with Israel being one state and Palestine being a state in parts of the Palestinian territories (the rest becoming part of Israel), with added stipulations depending on whom you ask (for instance demilitarization; Israeli "security control"/intervention rights).  Benny Gantz, former minister of defense and current leader of the opposition, is a notable proponent of the Two Entity Solution.

JustResearchReasons

Trotsky was never linked with Zionism. He called it utopian and reactionary.

[https://www.marxists.org/subject/jewish/trotsky-zionism.pdf](https://www.marxists.org/subject/jewish/trotsky-zionism.pdf)

Special-Figure-1467

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DeltaBot

&gt;they manage to work to form a single country - maybe with some kind of 50/50 arab/jewish representation and two prime ministers, or some other solution.

This is out of touch with the people that live here and will never happen, nobody wants that, even if you somehow force them, when did it ever work to just shove 2 conflicting nations into 1 country?
 
&gt;I do not think there will be peace until they stop pushing for a two-state solution.

Why?

There will never be peace until people stop pushing a one state solution, it will never be accepted by either party and even if it was it would lead to a brutal civil war.

&gt;I will admit though that I am not the most knowledgeable on the situation, so I am open to having my views changed.

What percentage of palestinians do you think support terrorism against Israel?

Do you think Israelis will wanna dissolve their country to make a new country with people that wanna do terrorism against them?

CaptainCarrot7

OP, why do you think a one state solution with dual leadership that somehow keeps a population around 50-50 (I guess the Christians need to leave) is possible while a two state solution is impossible? 

Personally, I think the two state solution, as unpopular as it is among both groups, is the only path without killing a million plus people. The fact that it's difficult shouldn't deter us from pursuing it as the value of life is too great to condemn either side to death.

We've achieved harder things. Look at how successful Japan is today when they were suicidal fascists recovering from two nuclear strikes and losing a world war less than a century ago.

HugsForUpvotes

A two-state situation is already basically the status quo.

You have Israel and you have Gaza, controlled by separate governments that are hostile to one another and do not cooperate except in rare, mediated situations.

The situation in the West Bank is, obviously, much more complicated, given that different powers are held by the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government. However, given the situation in Gaza, regardless of what happens to the PA eventually - whether Israel annexes the West Bank, Israel allows the PA more sovereignty, Hamas is able to take over the West Bank as well, or some other thing I can't predict - there are, already, two de-facto states. The question is whether there may be *more or fewer* than two in the future.

Thumatingra

Pakistan and India made it work after a lot of bloodshed. North and South Korea too, not mutual recognition, both claim the entirety of the other, peaceful, for now. The status quo between China and Taiwan also sort of a two 'state' solution where Taiwan has sovereignty but next to no diplomatic recognition. 

All still haven't destroyed each other, although it seems like they always are perpetually on the verge of starting shit because shitty neighbours.

The two most of the way to two states already (or three if you separate WB and Gaza), just one side has no control over its sovereignty. 

It could happen. Just not sure how likely.

hortonian_ovf

I’m not interested in what *won’t* work. 

Tell me about what will work. 

Two groups of people have deep-seated claims to one patch of land. Neither has any intention of leaving. Neither truly has the capacity to completely wipe out the other or truly push them off of the land completely and forever (If you think the war in Gaza has been bad, god, imagine trying to do this in the West Bank…). 

A two state - or a binational state, which is a 2SS with more steps - is going to be the only thing that ever might work. 

The only question is how many people are going to have to die before the people who live there - and the governments they elect - figure that out.

GonzoTheGreat93

“Both Israel and Palestine want the entire place”

FALSE. Israel has offered numerous deals that give up territory and other major concessions in exchange for peace. All have been denied

Rawr171

I don’t think I could change this view. Even in this thread, people are weirdly blaming Palestinians for not accepting the initial plan of having their land taken from them. That’s a wholly unreasonable ask. They’re being treated as though they should’ve rolled out the red carpet for the people moving into their homes, and that they deserve all of this for wanting to not be displaced. People are claiming that “Israel didn’t start any of the wars” but that just doesn’t check out. They stole the land to begin with, and don’t start with the “ancestral homeland” nonsense either. I simply will not expect Palestinians to recognize dubious, 3000 year old claims to their homes. Israel is always willing to accept treaties and peace deals and half measures, because they just want any foothold they can get. Then, they just so happen to let people from Long Island gradually encroach on Palestinian territory and then “whoops well they’re already there so we might as well install military checkpoints in the area”. This constant game of “I’m not touching you” is indicative of the fact that Israel is not honestly willing to coexist with a Palestinian state. They’ve chopped up the West Bank and walled in the Gaza Strip, and they just keep taking more. They mistreat the Palestinians little by little by little, the Palestinians fight back, and Israel goes “help help! They’re attacking me!” Then proceed to take even more land. 

For almost 80 years now we’ve been witnessing the inevitable tension that comes from two groups laying claim to the same land. You can back whoever you want in this conflict, but just be honest about it. Palestinians want their homes back, and Israel wants the entire levant region. Those two goals are incompatible with each other, and it’s highly unlikely that a two state solution can last.

Let's be clear. In the past Israel has offered or atleast agreed to 2 state solutions. Bill Clinton even spoke of the time Arafat came close to agreeing to it. Israel removed all its citizens from Gaza and let them choose their own government. They elected Hamas. A terrorist group that since 1980s had in their charter that they want to remove all the Jews from the world.... after launching over 20,000 rockets from Gaza into Israel after their win, they were nice enough to clarify their charter to just wanting to eradicate all the Jews in Palestine. 

If Hamas is in power, there will never be a peaceful solution for anybody.

One-Progress999

Israel has proposed 14 two state solutions, the earlier ones would have given Palestine about 6x the dirt they have now and huge rights. They shot them all down because the goal is not a Palestinian state, the goal is killing Jews. 

The Jews have proposed in good faith multiple solutions, Palestine cares more about killing Jews than having a country. 

CandusManus

1 state solution people are baffling.

imagine seeing a guy trying and failing to lift something heavy, then walking up to him and honestly saying "yea doesn't look like you'll be able to lift it like that. have you tried only using one hand?"

One possible scenario is Israel ethnically cleansing enough Palestinian to have a state on the whole land with a clear Jewish majority (60%/70%). I sincerely hope this does not happen, but if the international community does not step up, seems we are heading there.

Independent-Gur9951

Honestly there is no reason for Isreal to ever concede anything anymore. They are the strongest military in the area by far, the strongest economy not based on oil in the area. They will never give an equal say to the Arab population in Isreal. 

davidcornz

As an American Jew who has spent extensive time in Israel, and is very knowledgeable in the situation here’s my take. 

On the two state solution:
A two state solution is possible, but only under the condition Palestine is a demilitarized state not governed by Hamas or Fatah (PLO). Some new internationally backed government would have to take control. Even if this did occur it would not happen for years at this point. Furthermore, since October 7th occurred the 1967 borders are no longer on the table, and a larger security buffer for Israel will likely be in the final layout. Lastly, Jerusalem would have to be recognized exclusively as Israel’s undivided capital for Israel to accept this plan.

On the one state solution:
Obviously nobody wants this, but this would only occur through displacing nearly the entire population of Gaza and the West Bank. With Hamas and other Palestinian aligned groups attacking Israeli civilians on a consistent basis this concept is brought up only as a threat to encourage the release of hostages and get concessions to make a peaceful solution. Nobody can attack Israel, and walk away from the situation in a better standing than before. Israelis have the right like every other first world nation not to live under rocket fire, terrorism, and the risk of being taken hostage. Israel will likely push towards the one state solution until all the hostages are released, Hamas demilitarizes, a new non-Hamas/Fatah government emerges, and Jerusalem is recognized as Israel’s undivided capital. Once those criteria are met a two state solution can happen, and there can be a permanent peace like Israel has with Egypt and Jordan. It’s especially important to remember that Jordan is actually a Palestinian state, and this demonstrates that Israel is indeed willing to live in peace with Palestinians. I’m praying for peace, but unfortunately I don’t see it coming any time soon with the aftermath of October 7th…

Baconkings

I don't think were on track for any kind of peace or "solution" at this point.  Israel has just more or less openly revealed a plan to ethnically cleanse and take over Gaza.  In terms of the West Bank they've also openly said they no longer support the possibility of a 2SS and intend to have full sovereignty and control over the entire Palestinian population there while not extending any form of suffrage to the people living there, which is essentially well and truly makes them the apartheid state that everyone has long accused them of being.  Given that there's seemingly no one interested stopping them in any serious way from doing this, that is pretty clearly the future that the Israelis have chosen.  It's pretty bleak.

Roadshell

Palestinians have clearly stated their intentions many times to entirely remove the Jews from their land.  The Jews have repeatedly stated they will not leave and this is now their home.  The Jews are willing to negotiate to split the country, but the Palestinians are not.  You can’t force people to make peace when they do not want to.  They aren’t toddlers that we can put in different rooms and place a gate between them.  These are two adults who believe they own the same house and are willing to defend their property with their lives.  Neither wants a different house.

This war will continue until there is only one group left, and any solutions will come directly from them.  A 50/50 split of a single state is absolutely not on the table as a possibility if they can’t even agree to a 2 state solution.

Here4Pornnnnn

Israeli here : Some of us want the whole place. Most of us don't. (We are a diverse society like every country)
But right now, even those who don't want the entire place  won't trust the palestinians with any piece of land.

bluephoenix6754

What do you think happens if a president AOC turns to Isreal and says 

"Our future support for you is dependent on your complying with international law". 

That means no new settlements in the west bank. E
G. And potentially a gradual end to the military occupation there.

Could that not enable a two state solution?

Agentbasedmodel

Never is a very long time.  There have been hatreds like this in the past that eventually ended.

Also, Israel does not want the whole thing. Or at least they didn't. They've tried repeatedly to let the Palestinians have their own state.  The most recent result was the 10/7 attacks, so maybe that's out the window for the immediate future.

But in 20 years?  In 50?  In 100?  1000?  History has shown "intractable" hatreds like this disappear time and again.  It generally takes some kind of inciting incident or external threat, but it absolutely can happen.

awfulcrowded117

Israeli here. The only thing I can say is that thirty years ago, the idea of normalization with our then mortal enemy, Saudi Arabia, seemed laughable. Today, it is within reach; I am certain I will see it my lifetime.

I can only hope that within the next thirty years, the same transformative peace can come between Israel and its Palestinian neighbors.  

That day is not today, nor tomorrow. But I honestly hope and pray that it will actually come.

njxaxson

Of course, it will never happen because that is what it currently is, unofficially. I can see a path for a one state solution, but under the control of the UN for decades. Once a stable government is set, the UN can give back the state to its people.


People who bring up "Palestinians/Jews need to do x" are just there to play blame games. They just fan the flames, get in the way for people to offer solutions, and insult those that do. I often wonder if they even want peace?

Kirome

Hamas has literally knee capped any two state hope.  Yes, they brought Palestinian issue to the forefront, by October 7th slaughter, but in no way, has it advanced the issue.  In my opinion, October 7th had single handedly cancelled any hope for Palestinians.  Hamas, of course, does not care and will fight until the last Palestinian.  Unfortunately, Arabs never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity.

Certain-Pookins61

lol 1 state solution will never work. These people have been killing each other for the last millennium. 

I only see one 2 state solution working with them either hating each other and not interacting but peacefulish. Aka north South Korea divide. 

I don’t see any moderate Palestinians taking power any time soon. And I don’t see any Israelis not looking at Palestinians with suspicion.  

At this point I believe Israel is 
1. Heavy handed but necessary
2. Trying to break the spirit of the people in Gaza. 

Emotional_Pay3658

There's a lot of issues to tackle if you want peace and a two state solution.
- Right of Return. Israelis are against the arab Right of Return for two reasons, one is Religious, since we Jews believe we have sovereignty over the land, while they don't. The other is pragmatic, because arabs beat us by numbers, and they could pretty easily become a majority in the Israeli state, win the elections, and either dismantle the country or make it harder for Jews to live there in a completely democratic way.

- Land. Jerusalem, West Bank, Golan Heights are all highly contested territories for one reason or another. In contrast, territories like Tzfat are less important for either side.

- Conflict Prevention. Let's say we find a solution that gives Palestinian Arabs more land and sovereignty over them. What's stopping them from using that space for gathering as many resources as possible to defeat Israel?

- Badly defined borders. Something that always struck me as odd is the fact that both Gaza and the West Bank (At least part of it) are Palestinian Territories, yet you can't go between them without passing through Israel. For a permanent solution, there should most likely be redesigned borders that mitigate or remove this issue, or alternatively, allow free passing through borders for citizens of both nations.

# So in my opinion the outcome with the most potential for peace, if both nation leaders are open to it...
- The solution cannot be a one state solution, if peace is the desired outcome. 
- Israel should annex Gaza, and give the entire West Bank, plus everything North from Tel Aviv.
- Jerusalem should accept both Palestinian and Israeli citizens, but operate independently from both of them, ideally upon governance of an international entity. 
- Jews shall have the Right of Return in Israeli lands, but not Palestinian ones. The opposite shall also be true. 
- A clause in the border treaty shall say that whoever attacks the opposing country, be it by use of warfare, social or economic blockades, gives up their sovereignty to the lands. This serves to dissuade both sides from actively attacking each other.


The big issue is that currently, neither Hamas, PA or Netanyahu are willing to compromise. So a one state solution bathed in bloodshed from both sides is inevitable unless both nations change leaders.

Echikup

agreed. Until the Palestinians give up their dream of conquering the entire land, a 2-state solution is impossible. Sadly this isn't conjecture, it's borne out of the fact that Palestinians have rejected every opportunity for statehood.

The sticking point is that Palestinian nationalism is more interested in the eradication of a jewish state than the creation of a Palestinian state. 

Wish I was wrong and that I could change your mind, but objectively it's a dire situation.

thatshirtman

At this point I would agree that the most likely scenario is that Israel takes total control of Gaza and the West Bank and all but eliminates the Palestinians. There is very little incentive for Israel to come to the bargaining table and give any concessions to the Palestinians. The US and EU have largely given Israel a blank check to do whatever they want without consequences.

That being said, it is much more likely that we have a two-state solution than a one-state solution recognizing both Jews and Palestinians. Israel is fundamentally a Jewish state by definition. One state recognizing both parties would essentially be the end of Israel. So I think that the only solution that has any chance of satisfying the wants and needs of both sides is a two-state solution. For that reason alone, I don’t believe that it could never happen. Is it unlikely, or less likely now that it was 20-30 years ago? Yes. It’s still the best way forward if both sides are willing to come to the table in good faith and act in their own rational self-interest.

basedaudiosolutions

&gt;Both Israel and Palestine want the entire place

This has been disproven many times (on the Israeli side). Israel accepted the '47 partition, '48 armistice lines, '67 borders, returned Sinai in '82, offer to return back to '67 borders in negotiations with Arafat, returned Gaza in '05. Only one side has consistently offered to/has actually given up land for peace, and only one side has always demanded it all. That means that once the second decides it wants peace and will accept some but not all of the land, there can be peace.

&gt;cannot risk having a neighbouring country that is hostile to their existence

The same was said about Egypt--Israel and Egypt were mortal enemies after numerous existential wars. Israel had captured and occupied the entirety of the Sinai--a huge swath of Egyptian land. But that peace happened and has held, and part of that peace treaty included Israel's return of the Sinai, which happened. Jordan participated in multiple wars against Israel, now there is a peace treaty that has held for decades. Israel has a history of accepting peace with a country that was *formerly* hostile, as long as it forswears current and future hostilities. After all, once can only negotiate peace with an enemy--with allies, peace already exists, with enemies, peace is a negotiated solution.

&gt; I still think a two-state solution will never happen

Never is a long time.

January_In_Japan

I completely disagree I think there’ll never be peace until people stop pushing the one state solution which in the end will mean ethnic cleansing of one of the two ethnicities. So you’re right it only ends with either ethnic cleansing or a partition

Slow-Seaweed-5232

Hi,

Just wanted to say that the Two State solution is the only workable and fairest solution to all parties. The simple plans are the best way.

You need a complete reset of all of the three occupied territories, with international law being the framework to build on. The PA, Hamas, and IDF have all failed and are all not fit for purpose and have to be removed.

A simple plan:

1) No PA

2) No Hamas

3) No IDF

4) An international force in power for a min of 5 years with the remit of forming a fully functioning Palastiniam state governed by a reformed and restructured PA controlling all three ocupied teritories, which would be the newly formed country.
3 monthly reports to UN throughout 5 year time period.

4) Demilitralisation of all three occupied teritories. With this, I mean no civilians under any circumstances can carry a weapon or have weapons on their property. No groups of more 10 can be organized unless prior to approval by WBF. Failure would result in immediate deportation from teritories for a 5-year min period to the individuals or groups.

5) Control of all borders and checkpoints within teritories by WBF.

6) Control of the sky by WBF.

7) Equal distribution of utilities to all inhabitants of teritories.

I submitted a full description of my plan to the PA in London, but this is too large to put on as a post.

This is the start of many steps through the 5 year time period. People would say it would never work. There would be no choice given to any of the parties involved. Just make it work and fix this. Have solutions, not problems. What I feel is important with this is the maintenance of worrd order and international laws that govern it. If this continues like this, then the UN is not fit for purpose either. This has to change.

CommissionFuture6757

Sadly I agree, when one side is constantly willing to trade land for peace and the other side just wants them all dead. Peace is hard to imagine. The tale as  old as time.

HereIAmSendMe68

I think parts of UNGA Resolution 181 (1947) would be an excellent starting point for a two-state solution. However, rather than the generous land swaps it gives Palestine, do the following: 

1. Similar to how Israeli's withdrew from the Gaza Strip, they do so in the West Bank. Allowing for Palestinian State to be in Gaza and the West Bank. 

2. Creation of an international city in Jerusalem that allows for it executive to be a triumvirate of one Muslim, one Jew, and one Christian. The City council would have near-equal divide amongst the city legislature between these three groups. The city cannot be used as the capital for either an Israeli or Palestinian State. 

3. Palestine recognizes Israel right to exist and Israel recognizes Palestine's right to exist. This will be in exchange from either parties going to the ICJ for war crimes committed by both parties. 

4. Through UN supervision, oversee the disarmament of para-military groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah within Israel and Palestine. Any group that doesn't adhere will be forceable removed. 

5. Palestine must hold free, transparent, and open elections. These elections have not happened since Abbas has been elected. These elections can be overseen by either a UN commission or a tribunal of one Pro-Israeli state, one Pro-Palestinian State, and one neutral state. 

6. As long as both parties adhere to the terms, foreign investments and grants will come into the countries to repair the damages that have been done from years of war.

zyrtec2014

You can’t have israel operate as an ethnostate of whatever size or borders indefinitely because all the “Palestinians” would still be refugees, just further away. 

Combine that with there being a voting minority of non-Jews in Israel that you mention and it’s really impossible regardless. 

Two state worked on paper because it gave room for all the stuff we see with borders; civil society, Rule of Law, and mutual regard. If all that’s off the table then there is no actual statecraft to be done. What’s now Palestine could be Jordan or Syria or Egypt! (/e) as much as it could be Israel. 

That’s why so many people stand agog this whole thing. It only makes sense when you remember that the fighting elements don’t actually want a reason to stop fighting.

Rattfink45

I agree with OP Israel will never agree to a Palestinian state on their own devices. Apartheid South Africa was not going to end apartheif of their own volition either. 

I would note the Palestinians accepted Oslo, which was to lead to a (very shitty and unjust for the Palestinians) 2ss within 5 years of its signing. Others have cited the 2nd intifada as why Israel gave up on Oslo but this is mistaking cause and effect. Oslo said Israel was to cede most of Area C to the PA within 18 months of 1995. Never happened. So the US arranged the Wye River accord in 1998 for Israel to cede just 15% of Area C (so 9% of the west bank), and Israel used a PIJ attack as pretext to stop at 2%. Really, Netanyahu was facing a Likud caucus revolt over any land being ceded that would have dumped him from power so he broke the deal. After 6 years of Israel dragging out the bad faith negotiations the Palestinians began protesting. 

The Palestinians did not reject the Camp David accord either, negotiations continued a few weeks after at Taba. It was the Israelis who ended talks and never resumed them. 

The real question is whether International will to make Israel do it can be assembled. Israel is far more dependent on outside aid than South Africa. It is a US protectorate in all but name, this status is only somewhat deniable because the US chooses to rarely exert direct power in visible ways.

If the issue becomes a partisan question in the US and periods of Democratic party rule become hostile to the racist colonial project, then much can be done. Shifts in public opinion, particularly among the Democratic base say this is happening already.

scientician

Israel has never taken the position that they want all the land. In the very beginning, they expect the Arabs to declare a Palestinian state. At various points, they've given up land in an effort to make peace. It's the Palestinian side that refuses to budge.

A two-state solution is possible if the Palestinians move away from radical, fundamentalist Islam. Islam reinforces  Muslim superiority and Jewish inferiority. As long as that attitude persists, they can't comprehend sharing what they deem to be "Muslim land". If that mindset changes and they de-radicalize, they could become a UAE or Oman type of state. In that situation, peace is not unfathomable.

Ballplayerx97

A two State solution is possible, but would require considerable compromises from Israel, notably they'd have to give up large portions of or most of the Negev.

veerKg_CSS_Geologist

It's kinda difficult to reach a "two-state solution" when ONE states' "national charter" explicitly calls for the eradication of ALL Jews/Zionists.

If you're having trouble figuring out who the good guys are in this situation, think about this: when was the last time "good guys" took INNOCENT CIVILIANS HOSTAGE,  carved unborn babies from their still-living mother's womb, RAPED women to death (Or, in some instances, only until their pelvic bone shattered), all while celebrating and cheering on this unspeakable carnage as they LIVESTREAMED the horror onto the victims OWN social media accounts.

If Hamas laid down their weapons, released EVERY remaining hostage, and surrendered- Israel's military action would cease. 

But, if Israel laid down THEIR weapons, they would be summarily terrorized, tortured, and KILLED.

And we KNOW this to be true because Ghazi Hamad (senior Hamas official) declared publicly that Oct.7th would happen 100,000 more times until every "zionist" is annihilated.

it_8nt_my_fault

The last time it was close, it was the right voices, the right types of intervention, and the right steps, with a well-thought-out plan.  Like planting seeds in a garden.  

And then people ran through the garden.  

The same sort of setup would need to occur, now, with the right people from the Palestinian side, the Israeli side, and the interventionist side, whomever that might be, with preparation and awareness of surprises. 

They know it's going to anger people.  It's going to make people want to resort to these crazy tactics to try to destabilize things again.  The only way is to prevent it, long-term.  

After October, and after all that's happening in the world, currently, it will take something monumental for it to occur.  

But it is still possible.  Not with Netanyahu, certainly.  Not with current sentiment.  And, unfortunately, this means many more will likely die, needlessly.  

I still believe people do learn from their histories.

DemonCipher13

the starting point of your world view is flawed, palestine dont want their whole place, me going to your house and saying that now you live in the basement and i get to keep everything else is not "we both wanting the whole place"

me going to you house heavly armed with 10 other people while you have a knife is not "a conflict that either one will manage to win"

me going to your house and saying in willing to stop shotting if you agree to a peaceful partition where i get your house and you get the basement while i controll when you receive food, electracity, water and heating is not me being the only one willing to cooperate and share 

there's really is a simple solution to all of this, i dont go to your house and say you live in the basement from now on, all of the comments pretending that Israel is the reasonable one here dealing with savages the best they can are frankly disgusting, and purposefuly pretending they dont know whats happening, since we can see livestreams of it for more than a year now

Israel is on a suicide crusade right now, because as soon the empire (USA) can't lend weapons anymore, it will be disoluted and the land returned for the people

B_eyondthewall

Israel was the longest time supporting a 2 state solution, it was Palestine which refused it again and again.


Tho now, the Netanjahu government doesn't want it either

SteakHausMann

No, it won’t, because majority-Palestinian areas are not contiguous. But a three-state solution may.

TequillaShotz

Agree but I don't know if it necessarily ends in ethnic cleansing. There could be an indefinite stalemate where the status quo continues indefinitely, or Israel collapses due to not being able to defend its actions internationally any longer and a civic Palestinian state is created where a Jewish many chooses to stay but most choose to most to the liberal west.

DengistK

International discussions support a roadmap for establishing a Palestinian state within 15 months, emphasizing the need for urgent actions.

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